After effects of naturalization

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inv908
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After effects of naturalization

Post by inv908 » Tue May 21, 2019 12:58 pm

Folks,

I have been a long time lurker of this boards but decided to register and contribute!

I want to know from those who successfully went through the naturalization process - particularly those after completing 5 year residency. What were the significant benefits you saw *after* you became naturalized, that you wouldnt have got otherwise with Indian PP and Stamp 4?

The obvious one is visa-free travel to pretty much any country in the world. OTOH, do you see any significant difference in your professional or personal life? for ex: Did it help you get a job that you wouldnt have got otherwise?

will be glad if you could share some experiences

Thanks
I

Vinod92
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Re: After effects of naturalization

Post by Vinod92 » Wed May 22, 2019 9:50 am

Lurker here as well. Good question posted OP!
I've only started my professional career less than a year ago, and I'm considering the long term possibilities/consequences of being in Ireland. Would be nice to hear others' thoughts.

balac_m
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Re: After effects of naturalization

Post by balac_m » Thu May 23, 2019 10:07 am

I've not yet applied or got the citizenship but the following are my points

1. Europe is your home. You can work and live anywhere in Europe, including the UK, even after Brexit
2. Irish passport has more valuable than Indian passport, I saw it in firsthand in UAE
3. You cannot vote and apply for the government job in India. But you can get those in Ireland

inv908
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Re: After effects of naturalization

Post by inv908 » Fri May 24, 2019 6:59 am

balac_m wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 10:07 am
I've not yet applied or got the citizenship but the following are my points

1. Europe is your home. You can work and live anywhere in Europe, including the UK, even after Brexit
2. Irish passport has more valuable than Indian passport, I saw it in firsthand in UAE
3. You cannot vote and apply for the government job in India. But you can get those in Ireland
#2 is interesting. Can you describe that a bit more?

Vipul2019
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Re: After effects of naturalization

Post by Vipul2019 » Fri May 24, 2019 1:28 pm

A good article to share - read without prejudice....

I have been living abroad for almost half of my 34 years of existence. Being an NRI for a substantial amount of time, I know the kind of lifestyle's that most of them lead. Well, to start with, they are just a bunch of normal people who live abroad (not necessarily “developed” in the holistic sense).They can be split broadly into two distinct categories: The Never Return to India and The Now Return to India.

The Never Return is a unique breed of people. Their uniqueness lies in the fact that they think they are the most fortunate people in this world. For them India is a third world country which is confined to those once-in-a-few-years visits for the sake of completing the formality of seeing their loved ones. For them India is a chaotic, unhygienic and polluted place where they can't live for a second without Bisleri water and where the sound of honking is noise pollution. Having said this, they don't take the Indianness out of them because it will make them look out of sync with their identity — with their colonial masters — once they go back to their “holy” land. As such, anything to do with Indian “culture” needs to be imbibed — oops culture which suits their convenience, not culture in its purest form. Essentially, for this bunch of people being Indian is an opportunistic tool to sustain and increase their economic and social status in the land of the colonial masters.

Now, let's come to the Now Return category. This constitutes a considerable proportion of people. They are actually in love with their homeland so much that they want to come back as soon as possible (or that's what they say!!) They enrol their kids in Indian international schools so that they are in line with the Indian schooling system. They make sure that the kids learn Carnatic music, dance, cricket, etc. For this bunch of guys, the Indianness factor imbibed within their families is not a formality but something that they yearn for immensely.

Stuck in the vicious cycle of money and social pressures, they are not able to break away from the social barriers to return back home. As such, they look for ways to imbibe these qualities within their kin and tell people back home that their kids are more culturally inclined than any Indian kid could be. While in some cases this might be true, in most of the cases these are statements to satisfy the self from the guilt of not being able to return to their roots.

So what is the big deal? The big deal is that despite their vast difference in approach to living they share some common, pertinent issues.

One among the many issues is excessive academic expectations confronting the children — courtesy their NRI parents. Whether it is getting into Harvard or being the top in the school, there is no dearth of obsessive competition. The poor second generation kid is subject to immense pressure and his/her talents is more or less confined to the narrow path of engineering and not other streams of study. Not only does this reduce the appetite for the children, it makes their options and mindset for the future narrow. It is more of the NRI parent imposing what “they” want to be rather than what the “children” want to be. The main issue is the massive expectation they have from their children and therein lies the crux of the next issue confronting the NRIs.

The default thinking in most of the parents' mindset is that since they have invested immensely in inculcating the “Indianness” in them, the children would in turn be the “goody goody” souls in the decisions they make in their adult life. While it is fair enough to argue that the Indianness inculcated would make the children more in sync with the Indian lifestyle, the fact of the matter is they are growing up in a completely different country. In today's world, the social thinking of the younger generation is made up by the attitudes of their friends around them and not by the “default” tutorial classes of Indian culture. Of course, there are exceptions but they are just exceptions. For example, there is no point in the NRI parent living in a country for 20 years and then expecting the children to grow up the way “they want” and marry the person whom they think is good enough. Expectations such as marital affairs are a crucial part of the illusion that is confronting the NRIs. It is very crucial that they come to terms with the reality and set their priorities straight in life.

One needs to set their priorities and take a call on such issues. If they feel their culture and their way of thinking needs to be followed, then they should pack off and head back home. In an era of blossoming growth back home in India, heading back home is an economically practical solution and if one throws away the obsession with the foreign social “status”, I do not see any hindrance in coming back. You cannot expect to have the cake and the cherry, can you? If one is interested in staying abroad, then one should be prepared and be ready for the consequences (irrespective of its merit) with regards to the choice made by their children. While it is a duty for the children to keep the family in confidence on such issues, the reality of life is that a majority of the younger generation rarely looks beyond the self while taking such decisions.

Essentially, the crux of the issue confronting all NRIs is the weight of expectation one thrusts on the younger generation and the illusion with which they subject themselves oblivious of the practical consequences of the choices that they have made in their lives.

Whether one is in the Never Return or Now Return category, the NRIs need to confront issues head on rather than live in a illusion of their own!

balac_m
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Re: After effects of naturalization

Post by balac_m » Mon May 27, 2019 8:13 am

inv908 wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 6:59 am
balac_m wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 10:07 am
I've not yet applied or got the citizenship but the following are my points

1. Europe is your home. You can work and live anywhere in Europe, including the UK, even after Brexit
2. Irish passport has more valuable than Indian passport, I saw it in firsthand in UAE
3. You cannot vote and apply for the government job in India. But you can get those in Ireland
#2 is interesting. Can you describe that a bit more?
I and my friend who has an Irish passport went on holidays to Dubai. He finished his immigration in 2 minutes and it took me 40 minutes to complete the immigration. Both on arrival visa. I had to pay 105 Dhs for that 14 days visa while he allowed for free for 30 days. He rented a car in seconds but I cannot rent it until I showed the IRP and valid Irish license which took me 30 minutes. It's not white privilege either as he is originally from India

balac_m
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Posts: 359
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Re: After effects of naturalization

Post by balac_m » Mon May 27, 2019 8:35 am

Vipul2019 wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 1:28 pm
A good article to share - read without prejudice....

I have been living abroad for almost half of my 34 years of existence. Being an NRI for a substantial amount of time, I know the kind of lifestyle's that most of them lead. Well, to start with, they are just a bunch of normal people who live abroad (not necessarily “developed” in the holistic sense).They can be split broadly into two distinct categories: The Never Return to India and The Now Return to India.

The Never Return is a unique breed of people. Their uniqueness lies in the fact that they think they are the most fortunate people in this world. For them India is a third world country which is confined to those once-in-a-few-years visits for the sake of completing the formality of seeing their loved ones. For them India is a chaotic, unhygienic and polluted place where they can't live for a second without Bisleri water and where the sound of honking is noise pollution. Having said this, they don't take the Indianness out of them because it will make them look out of sync with their identity — with their colonial masters — once they go back to their “holy” land. As such, anything to do with Indian “culture” needs to be imbibed — oops culture which suits their convenience, not culture in its purest form. Essentially, for this bunch of people being Indian is an opportunistic tool to sustain and increase their economic and social status in the land of the colonial masters.

Now, let's come to the Now Return category. This constitutes a considerable proportion of people. They are actually in love with their homeland so much that they want to come back as soon as possible (or that's what they say!!) They enrol their kids in Indian international schools so that they are in line with the Indian schooling system. They make sure that the kids learn Carnatic music, dance, cricket, etc. For this bunch of guys, the Indianness factor imbibed within their families is not a formality but something that they yearn for immensely.

Stuck in the vicious cycle of money and social pressures, they are not able to break away from the social barriers to return back home. As such, they look for ways to imbibe these qualities within their kin and tell people back home that their kids are more culturally inclined than any Indian kid could be. While in some cases this might be true, in most of the cases these are statements to satisfy the self from the guilt of not being able to return to their roots.

So what is the big deal? The big deal is that despite their vast difference in approach to living they share some common, pertinent issues.

One among the many issues is excessive academic expectations confronting the children — courtesy their NRI parents. Whether it is getting into Harvard or being the top in the school, there is no dearth of obsessive competition. The poor second generation kid is subject to immense pressure and his/her talents is more or less confined to the narrow path of engineering and not other streams of study. Not only does this reduce the appetite for the children, it makes their options and mindset for the future narrow. It is more of the NRI parent imposing what “they” want to be rather than what the “children” want to be. The main issue is the massive expectation they have from their children and therein lies the crux of the next issue confronting the NRIs.

The default thinking in most of the parents' mindset is that since they have invested immensely in inculcating the “Indianness” in them, the children would in turn be the “goody goody” souls in the decisions they make in their adult life. While it is fair enough to argue that the Indianness inculcated would make the children more in sync with the Indian lifestyle, the fact of the matter is they are growing up in a completely different country. In today's world, the social thinking of the younger generation is made up by the attitudes of their friends around them and not by the “default” tutorial classes of Indian culture. Of course, there are exceptions but they are just exceptions. For example, there is no point in the NRI parent living in a country for 20 years and then expecting the children to grow up the way “they want” and marry the person whom they think is good enough. Expectations such as marital affairs are a crucial part of the illusion that is confronting the NRIs. It is very crucial that they come to terms with the reality and set their priorities straight in life.

One needs to set their priorities and take a call on such issues. If they feel their culture and their way of thinking needs to be followed, then they should pack off and head back home. In an era of blossoming growth back home in India, heading back home is an economically practical solution and if one throws away the obsession with the foreign social “status”, I do not see any hindrance in coming back. You cannot expect to have the cake and the cherry, can you? If one is interested in staying abroad, then one should be prepared and be ready for the consequences (irrespective of its merit) with regards to the choice made by their children. While it is a duty for the children to keep the family in confidence on such issues, the reality of life is that a majority of the younger generation rarely looks beyond the self while taking such decisions.

Essentially, the crux of the issue confronting all NRIs is the weight of expectation one thrusts on the younger generation and the illusion with which they subject themselves oblivious of the practical consequences of the choices that they have made in their lives.

Whether one is in the Never Return or Now Return category, the NRIs need to confront issues head on rather than live in a illusion of their own!
I see no harm in adopting the forign culture if in foreign countries. We can take the good and leave the bad. If we could thought the kids enough they will definitely understand. I cannot see the Indian culture and value as the reason to return to India. In fact, culture is no more in India. I see the worst in India, especially in the school kids. I hope the author might write this considering his school ages, which is no more in reality.

inv908
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Re: After effects of naturalization

Post by inv908 » Tue May 28, 2019 8:45 am

[/quote]

I and my friend who has an Irish passport went on holidays to Dubai. He finished his immigration in 2 minutes and it took me 40 minutes to complete the immigration. Both on arrival visa. I had to pay 105 Dhs for that 14 days visa while he allowed for free for 30 days. He rented a car in seconds but I cannot rent it until I showed the IRP and valid Irish license which took me 30 minutes. It's not white privilege either as he is originally from India
[/quote]

Nice! Good to know that the car hire guy discriminated based on the colour of passport and not of the skin :P The latter one cannot be changed :)

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