Considering a move to Dublin, feedback appreciated

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hurricane.123
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Considering a move to Dublin, feedback appreciated

Post by hurricane.123 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:11 pm

Hello Folks,

My wife, little one (<1yr) & myself are evaluating a move to dublin end of year, and would appreciate your feedback.

Reasons to consider the move: We have been living in the US - San Francisco area for about a decade and both of us work in tech jobs. We have really enjoyed living in the US, however it feels like we could use a change in country to explore Europe for a couple of years. My company will be able to sponsor my Critical Skills visa permit.

Questions:
- My wife will need to quit her job here and find work in dublin. She works for a very reputed employer who unfortunately don't have presence in the dublin area. I read that the government is making it easy for spouses (https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/e ... cheme.html). In general how is the tech scene in dublin and how long do people typically take to find work (I understand that there is no universal answer to this)?
- How is life in Dublin/Ireland with a young family? Are there kid friendly activities in the city and around.
- We are indian citizens, and wondering how easy is the schengen visa process if we want to travel to mainland europe on a regular basis.
- Finally, this move is not going to be financially beneficial to us (it's more for personal experience) given the higher salaries and lower-taxes in the US. I am expecting ~ 100K euros per year in base salary and another 30-40K euros in bonus. Benchmarking about 5K in monthly expenses (rental - 2K, childcare - 1K, groceries - 500, Utilities, travel, ... - 1.5K). Is that a reasonable cost estimate?

Our goal is to live in Ireland for a couple of years and then evaluate if we want to move back to the India/US at that point (maybe considering Irish naturalization on the way).

Thank you very much and appreciate all the activity on the forum which has been super helpful.

Regards!

rawat.archna
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Re: Considering a move to Dublin, feedback appreciated

Post by rawat.archna » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:44 am

hurricane.123 wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:11 pm
I am expecting ~ 100K euros per year in base salary and another 30-40K euros in bonus. Benchmarking about 5K in monthly expenses (rental - 2K, childcare - 1K, groceries - 500, Utilities, travel, ... - 1.5K). Is that a reasonable cost estimate?
Regards!
Wow 100K and 30-40K bonus in Euros?

The average salary of tech people in certain scenarios is 40K... You must be working for facebook or google .. else no one can pay you 140K a year in Ireland

ViRanjan
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Re: Considering a move to Dublin, feedback appreciated

Post by ViRanjan » Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:51 pm

hurricane.123 wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:11 pm
Hello Folks,

My wife, little one (<1yr) & myself are evaluating a move to dublin end of year, and would appreciate your feedback.

Reasons to consider the move: We have been living in the US - San Francisco area for about a decade and both of us work in tech jobs. We have really enjoyed living in the US, however it feels like we could use a change in country to explore Europe for a couple of years. My company will be able to sponsor my Critical Skills visa permit.

Questions:
- My wife will need to quit her job here and find work in dublin. She works for a very reputed employer who unfortunately don't have presence in the dublin area. I read that the government is making it easy for spouses (https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/e ... cheme.html). In general how is the tech scene in dublin and how long do people typically take to find work (I understand that there is no universal answer to this)?
1-6 months based on technology you work on and it's demand in Dublin. Check job portals to assess that.
- How is life in Dublin/Ireland with a young family? Are there kid friendly activities in the city and around.
It is easier to raise a kid here than SFO.
- We are indian citizens, and wondering how easy is the schengen visa process if we want to travel to mainland europe on a regular basis.
Same from anywhere else, nothing changes if you are living in Dublin. Usually 10-20 days for Schengen visa but limited to time period till Ur IRP card validity which is usually a year . So every year you will need it.
- Finally, this move is not going to be financially beneficial to us (it's more for personal experience) given the higher salaries and lower-taxes in the US. I am expecting ~ 100K euros per year in base salary and another 30-40K euros in bonus. Benchmarking about 5K in monthly expenses (rental - 2K, childcare - 1K, groceries - 500, Utilities, travel, ... - 1.5K). Is that a reasonable cost estimate?
Your estimate is just fine.

But rental will depend on area where you would like to live in.

Car insurance is also expensive.

Financially it would not be beneficial considering you will get a lesser salary than SFO and more taxes. Additionally your wife will also be getting salary in range of 50k to 70 k max considering the market here.

Only thing is education here would be free.
Our goal is to live in Ireland for a couple of years and then evaluate if we want to move back to the India/US at that point (maybe considering Irish naturalization on the way).
Irish naturalisation will take 5 years minimum
.

Thank you very much and appreciate all the activity on the forum which has been super helpful.

Regards!

ViRanjan
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:07 am
Antispam: No

Re: Considering a move to Dublin, feedback appreciated

Post by ViRanjan » Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:05 pm

hurricane.123 wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:11 pm
Hello Folks,

My wife, little one (<1yr) & myself are evaluating a move to dublin end of year, and would appreciate your feedback.

Reasons to consider the move: We have been living in the US - San Francisco area for about a decade and both of us work in tech jobs. We have really enjoyed living in the US, however it feels like we could use a change in country to explore Europe for a couple of years. My company will be able to sponsor my Critical Skills visa permit.

Questions:
- My wife will need to quit her job here and find work in dublin. She works for a very reputed employer who unfortunately don't have presence in the dublin area. I read that the government is making it easy for spouses (https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/e ... cheme.html). In general how is the tech scene in dublin and how long do people typically take to find work (I understand that there is no universal answer to this)?
[/b]CSEP spouses are eligible to work in ireland, getting work is dependent on multiple factors like job availability and domain you are working in. 1-6 months can be taken as usual timeline.


- How is life in Dublin/Ireland with a young family? Are there kid friendly activities in the city and around.
Good place to raise a kid, education is free and lots of activities in an around city centre.


- We are indian citizens, and wondering how easy is the schengen visa process if we want to travel to mainland europe on a regular basis.

[/b]First you will need single entry or double entry visa, post that you can have multiple entry visas, but limited to IRP validity. No special benefit.[quote]
-
Finally, this move is not going to be financially beneficial to us (it's more for personal experience) given the higher salaries and lower-taxes in the US. I am expecting ~ 100K euros per year in base salary and another 30-40K euros in bonus. Benchmarking about 5K in monthly expenses (rental - 2K, childcare - 1K, groceries - 500, Utilities, travel, ... - 1.5K). Is that a reasonable cost estimate?

yes 5k is okay, consider CAR insurance as an additional cost.

Our goal is to live in Ireland for a couple of years and then evaluate if we want to move back to the India/US at that point (maybe considering Irish naturalization on the way).

I think it will take more than a couple of years.

Thank you very much and appreciate all the activity on the forum which has been super helpful.

Regards!

balac_m
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Re: Considering a move to Dublin, feedback appreciated

Post by balac_m » Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:47 am

hurricane.123 wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:11 pm
Hello Folks,

My wife, little one (<1yr) & myself are evaluating a move to dublin end of year, and would appreciate your feedback.

Reasons to consider the move: We have been living in the US - San Francisco area for about a decade and both of us work in tech jobs. We have really enjoyed living in the US, however it feels like we could use a change in country to explore Europe for a couple of years. My company will be able to sponsor my Critical Skills visa permit.

Questions:
- My wife will need to quit her job here and find work in dublin. She works for a very reputed employer who unfortunately don't have presence in the dublin area. I read that the government is making it easy for spouses (https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/e ... cheme.html). In general how is the tech scene in dublin and how long do people typically take to find work (I understand that there is no universal answer to this)?
- How is life in Dublin/Ireland with a young family? Are there kid friendly activities in the city and around.
- We are indian citizens, and wondering how easy is the schengen visa process if we want to travel to mainland europe on a regular basis.
- Finally, this move is not going to be financially beneficial to us (it's more for personal experience) given the higher salaries and lower-taxes in the US. I am expecting ~ 100K euros per year in base salary and another 30-40K euros in bonus. Benchmarking about 5K in monthly expenses (rental - 2K, childcare - 1K, groceries - 500, Utilities, travel, ... - 1.5K). Is that a reasonable cost estimate?

Our goal is to live in Ireland for a couple of years and then evaluate if we want to move back to the India/US at that point (maybe considering Irish naturalization on the way).

Thank you very much and appreciate all the activity on the forum which has been super helpful.

Regards!

Max you can get the non-management level is 80000 Euros and for the management level, you can 120000 Max. If you need to earn more than that, you can check for contract jobs which pay most. If you could set your own company, the tax rate is just 12% and you can gain the most in that situation.

hurricane.123
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Re: Considering a move to Dublin, feedback appreciated

Post by hurricane.123 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:11 am

rawat.archna wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:44 am
hurricane.123 wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:11 pm
I am expecting ~ 100K euros per year in base salary and another 30-40K euros in bonus. Benchmarking about 5K in monthly expenses (rental - 2K, childcare - 1K, groceries - 500, Utilities, travel, ... - 1.5K). Is that a reasonable cost estimate?
Regards!
Wow 100K and 30-40K bonus in Euros?

The average salary of tech people in certain scenarios is 40K... You must be working for facebook or google .. else no one can pay you 140K a year in Ireland
Thank you, this is the initial number that I got from talking with my current manager and still waiting for final numbers from HR, which I should have in a couple of weeks. I don't work for one of the FANG companies, but a company that pays close to it. Not sure if it helps, but I am in a Senior Management position.

hurricane.123
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Re: Considering a move to Dublin, feedback appreciated

Post by hurricane.123 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:18 am

ViRanjan wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:51 pm
hurricane.123 wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:11 pm
Hello Folks,

My wife, little one (<1yr) & myself are evaluating a move to dublin end of year, and would appreciate your feedback.

Reasons to consider the move: We have been living in the US - San Francisco area for about a decade and both of us work in tech jobs. We have really enjoyed living in the US, however it feels like we could use a change in country to explore Europe for a couple of years. My company will be able to sponsor my Critical Skills visa permit.

Questions:
- My wife will need to quit her job here and find work in dublin. She works for a very reputed employer who unfortunately don't have presence in the dublin area. I read that the government is making it easy for spouses (https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/e ... cheme.html). In general how is the tech scene in dublin and how long do people typically take to find work (I understand that there is no universal answer to this)?
1-6 months based on technology you work on and it's demand in Dublin. Check job portals to assess that.
- How is life in Dublin/Ireland with a young family? Are there kid friendly activities in the city and around.
It is easier to raise a kid here than SFO.
- We are indian citizens, and wondering how easy is the schengen visa process if we want to travel to mainland europe on a regular basis.
Same from anywhere else, nothing changes if you are living in Dublin. Usually 10-20 days for Schengen visa but limited to time period till Ur IRP card validity which is usually a year . So every year you will need it.
- Finally, this move is not going to be financially beneficial to us (it's more for personal experience) given the higher salaries and lower-taxes in the US. I am expecting ~ 100K euros per year in base salary and another 30-40K euros in bonus. Benchmarking about 5K in monthly expenses (rental - 2K, childcare - 1K, groceries - 500, Utilities, travel, ... - 1.5K). Is that a reasonable cost estimate?
Your estimate is just fine.

But rental will depend on area where you would like to live in.

Car insurance is also expensive.

Financially it would not be beneficial considering you will get a lesser salary than SFO and more taxes. Additionally your wife will also be getting salary in range of 50k to 70 k max considering the market here.

Only thing is education here would be free.
Our goal is to live in Ireland for a couple of years and then evaluate if we want to move back to the India/US at that point (maybe considering Irish naturalization on the way).
Irish naturalisation will take 5 years minimum
.

Thank you very much and appreciate all the activity on the forum which has been super helpful.

Regards!
Very thoughtful answers, thank you!
Did you ever live in SF (or the greater Bay-Area), that information would be very helpful for us :)
Also, I have heard from colleagues that the work culture is more chill and relax in Ireland (we could use some time getting out of the rat-race here). Any comparison?

hurricane.123
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Re: Considering a move to Dublin, feedback appreciated

Post by hurricane.123 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:25 am

balac_m wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:47 am

Max you can get the non-management level is 80000 Euros and for the management level, you can 120000 Max. If you need to earn more than that, you can check for contract jobs which pay most. If you could set your own company, the tax rate is just 12% and you can gain the most in that situation.
That's useful, thanks! Not in a place financially to start my own company today :)
Would the max Euro 120000 be true even for say a senior manager managing teams of up to 15 people?

hurricane.123
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Re: Considering a move to Dublin, feedback appreciated

Post by hurricane.123 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:29 am

ViRanjan wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:05 pm

Our goal is to live in Ireland for a couple of years and then evaluate if we want to move back to the India/US at that point (maybe considering Irish naturalization on the way).

I think it will take more than a couple of years.

Regards!
Thank you, the citizenship is not on our mind right now. I see it as an opportunity to hopefully live in a new country, learn things (professionally & personally) and enjoy our time with our daughter and travel to a few countries in Europe on the way. I see that it's 5 years for naturalization, so we may evaluate on the way if that is something to think about after a couple of years.

hurricane.123
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Re: Considering a move to Dublin, feedback appreciated

Post by hurricane.123 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:41 am

Another question that may be of a personal choice: do many people in dublin with small families manage without a car? My thinking was that if both me & wife live close to work that we either walk/take the bus or train and only rent out cars for outings during the weekend, not sure if that is a reasonable expectation. Not owning a car will feel like a breath of fresh air.

ViRanjan
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Re: Considering a move to Dublin, feedback appreciated

Post by ViRanjan » Sun May 05, 2019 10:31 pm

Hi
The work culture is mainly dependent on you and your manager. If Ur manager is Europe based he may be relaxed.

I haven't lived in SFO.

I know the average wages there based on experience.

For a team manager leading 15 people tech will have 80k to 100 k plus bonus.

Quality of life in outskirts of city is better than city centre where Ur office might be. So car is required in my opinion.

piaiift
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Re: Considering a move to Dublin, feedback appreciated

Post by piaiift » Mon May 06, 2019 1:15 am

hurricane.123 wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:11 pm
Hello Folks,

My wife, little one (<1yr) & myself are evaluating a move to dublin end of year, and would appreciate your feedback.

Reasons to consider the move: We have been living in the US - San Francisco area for about a decade and both of us work in tech jobs. We have really enjoyed living in the US, however it feels like we could use a change in country to explore Europe for a couple of years. My company will be able to sponsor my Critical Skills visa permit.

Questions:
- My wife will need to quit her job here and find work in dublin. She works for a very reputed employer who unfortunately don't have presence in the dublin area. I read that the government is making it easy for spouses (https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/e ... cheme.html). In general how is the tech scene in dublin and how long do people typically take to find work (I understand that there is no universal answer to this)?
- How is life in Dublin/Ireland with a young family? Are there kid friendly activities in the city and around.
- We are indian citizens, and wondering how easy is the schengen visa process if we want to travel to mainland europe on a regular basis.
- Finally, this move is not going to be financially beneficial to us (it's more for personal experience) given the higher salaries and lower-taxes in the US. I am expecting ~ 100K euros per year in base salary and another 30-40K euros in bonus. Benchmarking about 5K in monthly expenses (rental - 2K, childcare - 1K, groceries - 500, Utilities, travel, ... - 1.5K). Is that a reasonable cost estimate?

Our goal is to live in Ireland for a couple of years and then evaluate if we want to move back to the India/US at that point (maybe considering Irish naturalization on the way).

Thank you very much and appreciate all the activity on the forum which has been super helpful.

Regards!
Few Pointers, may be useful .

1. You may be eligible for SARP relief - Saving you tax on salary above 75K - Not sure if US folks get that, please check it.

2. Dublin as a hub for EU Travel - Well, I would say not a great reason. Specially when you are located in US. What you loose is potential chance of a Green Card i.e. additional year(s) when you go back

3. Dublin is expensive for people below 4K. If you are say at above 5K+, quality of life is different.
Check houses below 2K rental vs Houses upwards of E 2500 Rent in Dublin. Pay 500 Extra and world is so much better.

4. At 120K plus, expensive may not be an issue at all. But do not forget - Human mind - US vs Dublin.
I would say you can easily plan 2 EU holidays if you bake in US vs Dublin Cost of Living

Gains
1. Easy route to citizenship - 5 years guaranteed

Cons
1. US stay almost nullified for GC purpose - Correct me if I am wrong here
2. More expensive EU holidays - If you add extra cost of living in Dublin and Visa cost (Frequent ones as long term EU visa is still a plan)
3. Child may get impacted - If you move later from EU to US. Not sure what is potential impact on schooling etc
4. Hey last but not the least - Bake in the Irish WEATHER

I may be missing many points, but after mid-night, this is best I could put across.

As you also know, it does not make a sense from a financial perspective. Even from a non-financial perspective, not sure what you are gaining.

I would assume - Rate of Growth of your tech giant in US will be greater than what is in EU world. May be a relevant factor.

PS : I am in Dublin, because no one offered me a job in US.

hurricane.123
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Re: Considering a move to Dublin, feedback appreciated

Post by hurricane.123 » Tue May 14, 2019 11:23 pm

ViRanjan wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 10:31 pm
Hi
The work culture is mainly dependent on you and your manager. If Ur manager is Europe based he may be relaxed.

I haven't lived in SFO.

I know the average wages there based on experience.

For a team manager leading 15 people tech will have 80k to 100 k plus bonus.

Quality of life in outskirts of city is better than city centre where Ur office might be. So car is required in my opinion.
Thank you! Good to know about the car situation and staying outskirts of the city.

hurricane.123
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Re: Considering a move to Dublin, feedback appreciated

Post by hurricane.123 » Tue May 14, 2019 11:41 pm

piaiift wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 1:15 am
hurricane.123 wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:11 pm
Hello Folks,

My wife, little one (<1yr) & myself are evaluating a move to dublin end of year, and would appreciate your feedback.

Reasons to consider the move: We have been living in the US - San Francisco area for about a decade and both of us work in tech jobs. We have really enjoyed living in the US, however it feels like we could use a change in country to explore Europe for a couple of years. My company will be able to sponsor my Critical Skills visa permit.

Questions:
- My wife will need to quit her job here and find work in dublin. She works for a very reputed employer who unfortunately don't have presence in the dublin area. I read that the government is making it easy for spouses (https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/e ... cheme.html). In general how is the tech scene in dublin and how long do people typically take to find work (I understand that there is no universal answer to this)?
- How is life in Dublin/Ireland with a young family? Are there kid friendly activities in the city and around.
- We are indian citizens, and wondering how easy is the schengen visa process if we want to travel to mainland europe on a regular basis.
- Finally, this move is not going to be financially beneficial to us (it's more for personal experience) given the higher salaries and lower-taxes in the US. I am expecting ~ 100K euros per year in base salary and another 30-40K euros in bonus. Benchmarking about 5K in monthly expenses (rental - 2K, childcare - 1K, groceries - 500, Utilities, travel, ... - 1.5K). Is that a reasonable cost estimate?

Our goal is to live in Ireland for a couple of years and then evaluate if we want to move back to the India/US at that point (maybe considering Irish naturalization on the way).

Thank you very much and appreciate all the activity on the forum which has been super helpful.

Regards!
Few Pointers, may be useful .

1. You may be eligible for SARP relief - Saving you tax on salary above 75K - Not sure if US folks get that, please check it.

2. Dublin as a hub for EU Travel - Well, I would say not a great reason. Specially when you are located in US. What you loose is potential chance of a Green Card i.e. additional year(s) when you go back

3. Dublin is expensive for people below 4K. If you are say at above 5K+, quality of life is different.
Check houses below 2K rental vs Houses upwards of E 2500 Rent in Dublin. Pay 500 Extra and world is so much better.

4. At 120K plus, expensive may not be an issue at all. But do not forget - Human mind - US vs Dublin.
I would say you can easily plan 2 EU holidays if you bake in US vs Dublin Cost of Living

Gains
1. Easy route to citizenship - 5 years guaranteed

Cons
1. US stay almost nullified for GC purpose - Correct me if I am wrong here
2. More expensive EU holidays - If you add extra cost of living in Dublin and Visa cost (Frequent ones as long term EU visa is still a plan)
3. Child may get impacted - If you move later from EU to US. Not sure what is potential impact on schooling etc
4. Hey last but not the least - Bake in the Irish WEATHER

I may be missing many points, but after mid-night, this is best I could put across.

As you also know, it does not make a sense from a financial perspective. Even from a non-financial perspective, not sure what you are gaining.

I would assume - Rate of Growth of your tech giant in US will be greater than what is in EU world. May be a relevant factor.

PS : I am in Dublin, because no one offered me a job in US.
Excellent points, thank you!

Lol for the weather, I have lived in other places like Seattle, Boston and can make do with the irish weather hopefully :)

We are on the fence on making this decision at the moment. The thing with the US visa system for people born in India is a pain, and there are hassles being imposed by the current government, and in most scenarios, for even highly skilled folks the green card is a distant dream.

I guess it comes down to new experiences, an easier immigration system for Ireland (from an outsider) and travel opportunities around europe.
Vs the significant pay reduction with comparable cost of living (except for housing which is crazy in SF).

I suppose we have a decision to make and will update the thread in a month or two once we make our decision.

hurricane.123
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Re: Considering a move to Dublin, feedback appreciated

Post by hurricane.123 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:40 am

I have been working with HR on this and things are slow as expected.
Current numbers I am working with: €150K per year (€104K base + 45K stocks/bonus). Looks like my wife can’t transfer with her current job, and she will have to find one in Dublin.
Worth the move based on numbers?
Also how far in advance do we need to find a crèche?

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